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Grizlas
The EM drive

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Posted on 02-05-2015 00:41
The EM drive and the Cannae drive both convert electricity to thrust without the use of a propellant - something that directly violates our current understanding of the laws of physics.

Several groups of researchers have now tested these devices, and the results are sensational. There is still every reason to be skeptical, but it has been about 2 years since I first heard about this, and so far, all tests point to the drives actually producing thrust.

This is what's going to happen next:

Following the positive results last year and early this year, Eagleworks have been able to dedicate more and better hardware to the experiment. They plan to conduct the experiment with more controls at higher power this year, and when they are able to achieve results higher than 100 micronewtons for either device, they plan on having the test replicated at the Glenn Research Center, the Jet Propulsion Lab, and John Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab.
If the experiment for either or both devices is replicated at higher power, and again at the other labs, it is likely that the physics community will work very hard to try and invalidate the experiments as there is little explanation for the results.


source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/34cq1b/the_facts_as_we_currently_know_them_about_the/

This is getting seriously interesting and deserves our attention smiley


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Roffen
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 04-05-2015 08:07
Eg havi lisið nakrar av artiklunum um EM-framdrift, og síggja tey stórt uppá at máti-ónøjagtigheitirnar eru størri enn framdriftin á EM-framdriftini.

Eg sigi ikki at tað er kvakksalvarí, men eg haldi ikki tøknin er heilt klár enn at seta í eitt interstellart rúmdarskip.

Nú er tað eitt sindur síðani eg havi lisið tær artiklarar, so tað kann vera at tað er broytt?



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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 04-05-2015 20:54
Vísindin aftanfyri "EM-framdrift" er allarhelst skeiv. Tað hava teir frá Eaglework eisini staðfest. (tvs. at tólini ikki rigga soleiðis sum upphavsmennirnir vilja vera við).

Eftir er so bara tað faktum, at teir hava mált rættiliga nógva framdrift (í Kina) frá hesum tólum fleiri ferðir í einum "hard vacuum". Allarhelst er talan um ein mátifeil, men vit fáa at síggja. Kanska vit hava vunnið í lotto, og funnið ein nýggjan máta at ferðast í rúmdini smiley




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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 27-07-2015 12:08
Nú er ein nýggjur artikul um emdrive komin út.


Abstract:
The EMDrive has been proposed as a revolutionary propellant less thruster using a resonating microwave cavity. It is claimed to work on the difference in radiation pressure due to the geometry of its tapered resonance cavity. We attempted to replicate an EM Drive and tested it on both a knife-edge balance as well as on a torsion balance inside a vacuum chamber. After developing a numerical model to properly design our cavity for high efficiencies in close cooperation with the EM Drive's inventor, we built a breadboard out of copper with the possibility to tune the resonance frequency in order to match the resonance frequency of the magnetron which was attached on the side of the cavity. After measuring the Q-factor of our assembly, we connected the EMDrive to a commercial 700 W microwave magnetron. After a thermal mapping of the surfaces, we performed thrust measurements with a knife-edge balance as well as with a torsion balance in vacuum chamber. Our measurements reveal thrusts as expected from previous claims after carefully studying thermal and electromagnetic interferences. For the first time, measurements were also performed in high vacuum. Due to a low Q factor of <50, we observed thrusts of +/-20 pN. We identified the magnetic interaction of the power feeding lines going to and from the liquid metal contacts as the most important possible side-effect that is not fully characterized yet. Our test campaign can not confirm or refute the claims of the EMDrive but intends to independently assess possible side-effects in the measurements methods used so far. Nevertheless, we do observe thrusts close to the actual predictions after eliminating many possible error sources that should warrant further investigation into the phenomena.


Hesuferð er tað ein Martin Tajmar sum hevur kannað um hettar tólið kann skapa framdrift burturúr streymi. Tajmar hevur hampuliga gott umdømi, so nú byrjar hettar av alvara at gerast áhugavert. Úrslitið er í tráð við hinar mátingarnar, so nú eru vit eitt fet nærri einum gjøgnumbroti smiley

Sjálvandi, er tað framvegis mest sannlíkt, at hettar er ein feilur.

EDIT: link til pdf her


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Edited by Grizlas on 31-07-2015 16:25
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Norlander
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 27-07-2015 12:12
Cool! Hettar byrjar at væra okkurt nú smiley


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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 27-07-2015 13:43
Tajmar minnir meg um hendan fýrin:



má vera hárið smiley


You want to tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing?

Edited by Grizlas on 27-07-2015 13:44
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Roffen
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 28-07-2015 08:18
haha, hasin er "to good to be bad!" smiley



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RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 19-11-2016 13:38
News on the EM-drive front. NASA hevur nú published eitt peer-review av tí, og alt sær enn út til at rigga, og Newton's third law er enn brotin.


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Norlander
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 19-11-2016 13:48
Read up on this on the reddit thread. Seems the theoretical solution that NASA is now offering relies on Pilot wave theory to be right, and if so most of "classical" quantum mechanics is wrong- notably the Copenhagen interpretation, and the whole issue of Schrodingers cat. This has the added implication that the universe is deterministic, all chance goes out the window - the topic of many old philosophical discussions we had 10-15 years ago. Somehow the EM-drive is bringing answers to questions of fate and determinism.

This exchange captures the significance of this.


[–]datums [+1] 1232 points 7 hours ago
People are excited about this for the wrong reason.

It's utility for space travel is much less significant than the fact that we can build a machine that does something, but we can't explain why.

Then someone like Einstein comes along, and comes up with a theory that fits all the weird data.

It's about time for us to peel another layer off of the universe.


[–]Deesing82 [+1] 621 points 6 hours ago
I think Mars in 70 days can't really be called "the wrong reason" for getting excited


[–]PubScrubRedemption [+1] 326 points 5 hours ago
No, it isn't. It's just that idea may just be paled in comparison to the prospects of a creation of man literally defying known physics.


[–]Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow 64 points 5 hours ago
Wouldn't that describe a huge number of inventions?


[–]FaceDeer [+1] 261 points 4 hours ago
Not to the same degree as this thing. It's like someone was working on a new kind of carburator and discovered that his test vehicle was now able to drive through solid matter without disrupting it.

Maybe eventually it'll turn out to be just some quirk of existing laws we hadn't considered before but at this point for all we know it's a machine that tears portals through the Ghost Dimension or whatever. Researchers are currently saying "no friggin' clue how it works yet, we're just tossing science at the wall and are amazed that it's sticking."

That's pretty heady stuff.




At the same time as this is happening, research into a completely different field has renewed support for the Pilot wave theory.


The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.
- John Kenneth Galbraith

Edited by Norlander on 19-11-2016 14:05
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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 19-11-2016 15:50
I've actually been following the EMdrive subreddit since I first heard about it. It has been a long and interesting journey for me that has opened my eyes to the crazy that is out there.

Posts have mostly been written by "believers" that in some cases are trying to build their own EMdrive. There is this one guy, however, that keeps arguing against the EMdrive. He claims to have a Ph.D in Physics, and firmly believes the EMdrive to be pathological science. He has me convinced smiley

He hasn't commented on the paper yet - i'm looking forward to it.


You want to tempt the wrath of the whatever from high atop the thing?

Edited by Grizlas on 19-11-2016 15:51
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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 20-11-2016 04:05
Here we go:

Why you shouldnt be excited about the new EW emdrive paper.

The disturbing fact that the Emdrive made it to the top of /r/science (and /r/space for that matter) really has me wondering what other bullshit I'm buying into on a daily basis.


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Edited by Grizlas on 20-11-2016 04:24
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Norlander
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 21-11-2016 00:05
There are quite a few doing rebuttals to his rebuttal there now. Will be exciting whenever this issue is settled. Either someone fooled some pretty good scientists for a long time, or some new physics is needed. One thing that has already been proven is that the original inventors claim of how it works is bullshit - which is pretty funny if it actually works regardless.

The mode of action being caused by Pilot wave theory really got me going down the rabbit hole of weblinks. Pilot wave theory basically changes quantum mechanics by removing uncertainty - something that has always been an irksome feature of QM for many (including me). So I'm hoping Pilot wave theory holds up smiley

PWT (or De Broglie-Bohm theory) is not a new theory, it's been around since the 1920's (de Broglie's original idea) and 1950's (Bohm revised idea).


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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 21-11-2016 16:22
Indeed, I'm interested to see how this plays out. I read somewhere that they're launching one of these things into space in a couple of months, to settle this once and for all smiley

Pilot wave theory is interesting - I read something about it in another context years ago, and liked it for the same reasons you mention.


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Grizlas
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 27-11-2016 12:16
The Physics subreddit has until now banned all Em drive discussion as non peer-reviewed crackpot science. But now that White's paper passed peer-review in a respectable journal (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics) discussion has opened up.

Immediately, the /r/physics people tear the paper apart: https://np.reddit.com/r/Physics/comments/5ewj86/so_nasas_em_drive_paper_is_officially_published/


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Edited by Grizlas on 27-11-2016 12:16
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Norlander
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 09-12-2016 18:05
A guy on r/dataisbeautiful with too much time on his hands used it productively to figure out that if the drive works, it works in reverse smiley

https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/5hdx6u/a_reanalysis_of_nasas_emdrive_data_reveals_that/


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Norlander
RE: The EM drive

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Posted on 24-05-2021 11:55
Update on the EM Drive




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