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DumbChess is a simple game

Grizlas on April 25 2024 15:39:49
That commenter seems to think he says he won every game, when in fact he is saying "its not like I won every game".

I agree with him about chess being a relatively simple game. most modern strategy games are much more complex than chess.

That's not to say that the level at which chess is played today isn't extremely high, and far beyond the skill of most humans.
OKJones on April 26 2024 20:40:25
Sounds like he says "I still like won every game". To say chess is a simple game is a bit stupid in my oppinion. Sounds to me like he's saying he played chess as a kid, beat everyone, and found it boring. Sounds to me he thinks himself too good for chess.
Grizlas on April 26 2024 22:35:38
question: "have you been beat?"
answer "yeah, its not like I wont every game"

he means it is "simple" in the sense that there are other games out there that give the player a much wider range of actions. What is stupid about that? Chess is sufficiently complex that no human can see all the possibilities, but other games far exceed chess in complexity all the same.

But I get it - you hate Elon Musk!
OKJones on April 27 2024 23:29:55
hate is a strong word. I just don't think he is the nerd god, you think him to be.

Chess is not a simple game, so why scoff at it and say it's simple. Delusions of grandeur.

Anyway you love him and that's fine smiley
Grizlas on April 28 2024 02:10:44
Are we arguing the semantics of "simple" here or are you saying that chess has the same as or more degrees of freedom than modern computer strategy games?
Norlander on April 28 2024 19:29:22
Saying Chess is simple was never a weird take until he said it. This old medium post covers my opinion quite well.

Chess is the only system I can think of that is so simple, and yet so complex, that it enables a 10-year-old Nigerian schoolgirl and a 70-year-old Kyrgyzstani herdsman to meet on equal intellectual footing; to interact with one another’s logic and understanding in meaningful, interesting ways — without the need for words, or shared cultural paradigms, or any common expertise at all, really, beyond knowledge of a rule-set so simple that any kindergartner can learn it in an afternoon.

As for the whole possible moves discussion: Go is unimaginably more complex. 10^360 vs 10^123 when looking at strictly combinations of possible moves, yet it is also quite a simple game to learn to play. This is the whole thing about strictly logical games, like fractals after a few dozen moves the number of becomes insane, yet they are simple to learn, particularly compared to any modern strategy game.

The fact that it is simple doesn't take away its beauty. To me it is the source of its beauty and longevity. Simple moves, simple rules, but yet so absurdly hard to master. I have played nearly 33000 games vs other human opponents over the last 10 years on (just looked at my stats), yet my rating is still only that of a respectable amateur (1400 to 1600 depending upon mode).
Grizlas on April 28 2024 20:45:44
Yes, that was eventually going to be my point, Norlander. It is very easy to make a infinitely complex game in the age of computers. There is nothing stopping me from quickly whipping up a pseudo chess game with a 1000 separate units on a huge 3D game board, that is a thousand times more complex than chess.
The beauty of chess is that is simple enough for everyone to learn while at the same time being complex enough to be endlessly challenging.
OKJones on April 28 2024 22:58:34
It doesn't matter if you can make a more complex strategy game. For the mere mortal chess is complex enough. GM's reach novelties quite frequently in chess today. A novelty being a position that hasn't been reached before. Tic Tac Toe is a simple game. Because something else is more complex doesn't mean that chess is simple. Sure you hav 6 different pieces and the all move differently and start in the same place each game.
Grizlas on April 29 2024 15:08:57
Well, that is what he meant - it was relatively simple, but I he doesn't convey that very well. Chess has only 6 different pieces and only 64 possible places they can be. That in itself makes it complex enough to challenge every human for a lifetime, but compare it to something like Civilization that has a bunch of different units and a huge number of places they can be. I mean, it IS simple right? He finds chess boring and frankly so do I. I'd much rather be playing some strategy game on the computer, but that's just me.
I see that the internet is full of chess people miffed at him for somehow belittling chess. Seems to me that it is because chess holds some intellectual snobby status in some circles.
OKJones on April 29 2024 19:08:25
Some chess players are probably snobby about chess but you could say that about any strategy game. It's more likely that Elon got bored of chess, because he wasn't very good at it.

Civilization might be more complex than chess, but it's easier to master than chess is. It doesn't require the same precission as chess.
OKJones on May 04 2024 09:12:28
It's not that I hate Elon Musk, it's just that he is full of shit.
Grizlas on May 05 2024 11:07:32
He is. Just not in the way you think. But anyway - this got a giggle from me, and I'm not completely disagreeing with this guy when it comes to Tesla smiley
With all the EVs coming out of china these days, the slow realization the electric grid can'%3Bt keep up with the projected growth, I'm afraid Tesla will lose much of its value if they do not deliver on the robotaxis and/or Optimus. Which, given all of these broken promises, is increasingly unlikely.
OKJones on May 05 2024 21:52:34
Watched that couple of days ago. Pretty funny smiley
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