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 Fitna |  Fitna, the much anticipated and discussed Islam-critic short film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders has been released. You can see it on Liveleak or our own drop-site. /Discuss |
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on March 28 2008 02:26:11
Doing my late night blog rounds I find it amusing that all left-wing blogs ignore it and all right-wing blogs put it front and center.
I think it's a good movie, it shows verses of the koran interlaced with the speech of it's leaders and followers, and is nothing like the "nazi-propaganda" that some have claimed (note to self to never vote for that party).
Then again some of you here believe I'm slightly to the right of the Kaiser... |
on March 28 2008 17:16:16
sera brutalur filmur... |
on March 28 2008 20:14:40
I don't think it's especially brutal or Nazi-anything. If anything it's definately anti-nazi. It specifically raises attention on the dangers towards the rights and freedoms of the Jews and gays, if Islam succeeds in ruling the world. I'm not at all convinced by the 'moderate' muslims, who keep pointing towards the extremists as the 'bad apples'. Islam is by defining principles every bit the danger towards western liberty and democratic rights as this movie tries to point out that they are. |
on March 30 2008 10:16:36
provocation for the sake of provocation.... and you fell for it  |
on March 30 2008 13:27:49
Roffen on March 30 2008 11:16:36
provocation for the sake of provocation.... and you fell for it
I for one don't think ignorance is bliss... |
on March 30 2008 13:49:44
I for one don't think ignorance is bliss...
yeah, but how would you know? maybe you're ignorant about something that is making you feel blissful? 
no, I dont think ignorance can be bliss either. If there even is such a thing as bliss it is a state of being that is fleeting. Ignorance, as we all know, is characterized by being long lasting and in many cases permanent. Hence if bliss is said to be momentary and ignorance persistent, they can't be the same.
Q.E.D  |
on April 05 2008 02:42:32
There's nothing new, as such, in that film. But Wilders has managed to edit these clips in a way that allows him to say what most documentary makers would spend an hour or two to show and tell. It still seems a bit "propaganda'ish", but not Nazi.
Islam is about so much more than what is shown in the film... However, what we see here is the way in which Islam interacts with the world. Scary stuff. |
on April 07 2008 22:08:25
Anyone who says that the film is pure propaganda, is lying to himself or trying to cover for the extremists.
I don't think Wilders is trying to scare or treathen the muslims, that can't be done. He's trying to prove a point about Islam and the extremists that are showing their ugly presence everywhere of late. If this film is so dangerous to show, then why have muslims declared a death-sentence on Wilders? I think that proves Wilder's point! |
on April 10 2008 13:36:24
 |
on April 10 2008 16:34:27
lool |
on April 10 2008 21:05:50
I agree with the point I think jogvanth was making; that the moderate Muslims are providing cover for the extremists. Sure, there are 'bad apples' and sure, most Muslims are not terrorist suicide bombers. The problem is that the so-called bad apples find legitimacy of their actions in the Koran. Wilders is actually appealing to the Muslims not to disown their religion, but to disown the extremists and to tear out the verses that legitimize them.
The Muslims have a further problem in their lack of disownment of the extremists and their actions. In fact, they usually react to terrorist acts by displays of joy and celebration.
I wish, though, that Christians would recognize that their religion and scriptures are quite similar and can (and have) lead to similar acts and atrocities.
PS @Norlander: It's slightly to the right of the Führer... |
on April 10 2008 22:28:22
A Muslim has made a retort to Wilders, in the same fashion. It's called 'Schism':
Yes, out of context. The usual suspect. When confronted with a clear commandment of murder, hate, bigotry and the like, of which an abundance can be found in both the Koran and the Bible, the religious person will usually claim that the quote has been taken out of context. On the other hand it seems perfectly alright when they themselves quote one of the better parts, even though these parts are clearly in the minority.
The problem is, you can't just ignore certain parts and cherry-pick just a few parts you like, and expect other people to know which parts you approve of, and/or do the same. People only know that you believe in the Bible (or other scripture of choice) and can't know which parts you live by, and which parts you regard as antiquated or part of 'the old law', or whatever.
Again, not disowning the bad parts of your scripture can, has, and will lead to people accepting these bad parts as commandments given by God (and quite rightly so), and acting upon it. |
on April 11 2008 12:42:50
So he thinks that you can quote the bible out of context to make it seem as bad as the koran is portrayed in Fitna?
Fine. Sure. Whatever.
But I do not expect the new movie to trigger a christian fatwa or other such foolishness. And to me, THAT is the important lesson that he is missing. |
on April 11 2008 14:59:19
I could not agree more. They main difference between Islam and (any?) other religion, is the way it is being practised.
While the muslims may try to tell the world, that Islam preaches tolerance and 'Be-Well' behaviour towards non-believers, then modern history proves them wrong. While Christianity has a historical reputation of violence and mayhem in ye-olden-days, the religion has evolved into a more modern and tolerant version, that does not preach violence in any form, but rather the reverse. The old scriptures that speak of violence and destruction are conveniently forgotten and overlooked by modern christians. Muslims still pay creed to a literal interpretation of the Quran in full context of the book as a whole. In their minds the Quran is a continuos text, from which no part may be left out. This is what makes them dangerous in our modern society. While we christians still have our own religious nutcases running around having the same literal way of interpreting the bible and trying to change the world to their image, the majority (if not all) of them are at least peacefull in their efforts. Those muslims who seek to change the world to their image, are all using extreme force and cowardly methods to reach their goals.
The way the religions are being expressed in public, is the way their practisioners ought to be judged. But again, we have to be careful not to generalize them all, or we end up being just as bad (or worse) then they are. Tricky situation. |
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